This is my response to a recent email from a student, who shall of course remain anonymous. I've added a few links and comments.
While doing some web browsing on quantum algorithms, I stumbled upon your page. I noticed that you boast that you have the lowest undergraduate GPA of any professor you have ever met. I am an undergraduate computer science student who dreams of one day obtaining a PhD, but my GPA is less than impressive. If you have a moment, I would love to know how you were able to convince graduate admissions and more importantly, yourself, that you were up to the task of getting a PhD.
Hard work, arrogance, and pure dumb luck.
I always wanted to go to grad school, but I was a LAZY undergrad. I spent more time hacking on independent programming projects than on homework or studying for exams. Anything I found boring, I spent no time on whatsoever. Usually, by the time final exams rolled around, I was too far behind to catch up. (I'd love to claim that I spent all that time partying, but I was also a geek.) I aced the programming classes (which landed me some student TA jobs), and I did lots of independent study projects, but I bombed everything else. It wasn't that I couldn't understand the material or do the work (at least, if I'd kept up); I just didn't care.
Hey, it worked in high school. I got into college, despite almost failing English and history, because I was years ahead at math.
My senior year in college, a couple of other computer science majors started their own software company. They hired one of my friends; he suggested they hire me (since I was good at programming). That was where I finally learned to work. School was great, because if I didn't get something done by the deadline, I didn't have to do it anymore! Sure, there's a bad grade, but whatever. At the startup, if I didn't get something done by the deadline, I still had to do it -- unless I wanted to pay back all the money they'd given me -- only now my boss and co-workers were pissed off. After a few months of this, it finally sunk in that it would be easier just to do the work. I still have to remind myself of this sometimes.
The first time I applied to grad school, I didn't get in ANYWHERE, despite high GRE scores. I got some rec letters through my undergrad TA jobs, but they all said "he's smart but lazy", which is the kiss of death.
The startup was bought by a bigger company in Silicon Valley (which is now part of Apple, or dead, depending on who you ask). By this point I'd learned to work, but I discovered (or remembered) that I was more interested in doing things RIGHT than doing them NOW, which is bad news in the software industry; this wasn't the place for me. On the other hand, I got a reputation for being able to answer hard math-y questions, and I found myself working through automata theory textbooks for fun while I waited for my program to compile. So I decided to apply again, this time saying I wanted to do software engineering (since I'd been a software engineer for four years) and getting letters from my managers (who said I could work hard) in addition to my old profs (who still remembered me as smart but lazy). I retook the GREs and did well.
This time, I got into a couple of schools. When I arrived at UC Irvine, the director of graduate admissions, a software engineer, told me he had burned some political capital to get me admitted despite my crappy GPA, that he had a lot riding on my success, that he'd gambled on me because of my work experience, and that I'd better not let him down. (That was the last time I ever talked to him. A month later, I realized I didn't want to do software engineering.)
I think one big reason I got in despite my grades was good timing. I started at Irvine in 1990, at the height of the PC software boom/bubble. It was basically a smaller version of the .com boom/bubble ten years later. Most good CS students were getting high-paying programming jobs, or even starting their own companies, right out of college. So fewer people were applying to graduate school, but undergrad demand was up, so more faculty were being hired, so there was more room for grad students. The bar for admissions must have been lower.
Five years later (as I was finishing my PhD), the software bubble burst, and the pendulum swung the other way -- it was hard to find programming jobs, undergrad enrollment dropped, faculty hiring went down, more people applied to grad school. The bar for grad admissions (and faculty jobs) went back up.
The same thing happened later with the .com bust, only this time I saw it from within the grad admission committee. At UIUC, we get many more, and much better, domestic grad school applications now than in previous years. (International applicants are more complicated. Yay 9/11.) Good grades are a MINIMUM requirement for admission now. Most incoming grad students already have some research experience; some of them even have publications. That was not true five years ago.
When grad applications arrive, one of our department secretaries sorts them roughly into three equal piles -- MAYBE, PROBABLY NOT, and NO -- based almost entirely on GPA, weighted by the quality of the school, and GREs. (Penn has a very good program, so this works in your favor.) The committee looks at the MAYBE pile, and if there's still space, maybe the top of the PROBABLY NOT pile. If a student's GPA is under 3.0, it's very likely that no one on the committee will even look at their application. (This is a bit of an oversimplification.)
...UNLESS they're rescued by someone on the faculty. Occasionally, I'll get an email from someone I know at another school asking me to look out for their student's application and pointing out their other strengths: independent study projects, research experience, internships, other employment, etc. If the student looks interesting, I'll pass the note to the committee, asking them to look at the file. That doesn't guarantee that they'll be admitted, of course -- especially if they're in the NO pile -- but if a faculty member really wants to admit someone, it's harder for the committee to say no.
That's how I got into grad school. Someone on the faculty liked my application, despite my bad grades, and they pulled for me.
Free advice is usually worth exactly what you pay for it, but let me offer one concrete suggestion: Talk to faculty in your department who do the things you're most interested in. (Penn's a big department, so you'll have to hunt them down.) If you're good at their subject, tell them you're interested and ask if they can suggest something for you to study further. If you're not so good at their subject, tell them you're interested anyway and ask if they have any suggestions for how to improve. Don't be discouraged if they don't have time; just ask for suggestions for other faculty to talk to. Figure out what you're best at, and do something visible with that!
I hope this helps. Good luck!
-- Jeff
having a cs and math degree from Penn, I know for a fact that most of the professors really do want to help the students, but first you have to show that you are worth helping. You can do this by working hard or simply by asking someone whose research you are interested in to get a cup of coffee one day and talking with him/her. Most of the time, if the professor has some free time and it is not exam period or deadline time, they will be more than happy to help. More important, then follow up this meeting and work on an independent project with the professor.
My undergrad GPA was not stellar (not horrible, but not great),but because of the professors I worked with, I was accepted to a couple top math institutions for grad school.
Posted by: me | March 28, 2005 at 12:24 PM
That's a pretty excellent post Jeff.
Posted by: The Great Gazoo | March 29, 2005 at 05:08 AM
My experience with getting into grad school has been similar, though I am doing a masters and not a Ph.D. I'd like to add one more thing - if you have worked on a lot of projects on the side, rather than just state that in your resume or statement of purpose, make a portfolio of these and send a URL.
Posted by: Ajju | April 04, 2005 at 01:14 AM
This is indeed a great article. The most interesting thing I found was the advice in the last para.
Great work Jeff.
Posted by: Raja Khurram Shehzad | May 31, 2005 at 12:18 AM
Like the posting, I also have similar experiences uptill Masters now (and still counting)
have the lowest line CGPA (just because I never care for it)
To my experience most of the lecturers and professors would like to help you, most of the time, just remember its YOU who have to do the hard work, if you can just prove to them that you worth it (not neccessarily in academic but in practicle life) they'll surely help.
Seconds the advice of making a portfolio.
Nice Jeff
Posted by: Faisal | May 31, 2005 at 04:56 AM
Good article. I think it is not neccessary to have a good GPA for pursuing higher education like MS/PhD. Albeit one should have to get in good university. IMHO, GRE and IELTS/TOFEL score can play a vital role in geting admission in MS with low GPA. Also you should show special interest in specific area with some real work evidence in interested field.
Hope it will work.
Posted by: Ali | June 01, 2005 at 02:40 AM
Hi,
As an Undergraduate I have a GPA of just about 3.0 with a double major in EE and math. I am doing some research over the summer with a prof while preparing for the GRE and applying to grad schools. Do I stand I chance of getting into grad school? I am trying for schools in the top 20-60 bracket(rankings). Please let me know as that will definately give me a sense of relief....
Posted by: Anonymous | June 24, 2006 at 11:41 AM
If you are weak GPA-wise a lot of programs will provisionally accept you with enough extenuating circumstances. Make sure you get >600v and near-perfect-q if you want to get into a decent graduate engineering program.
Posted by: anonymous | July 26, 2006 at 08:14 PM
Hello,
Over the past 3 years I have found it very hard being accepted into a Pharmacy program. I have extremely good references, one being my neighbor who is a professor at one of the colleges I applied. However, If anyone has any good advice or suggestions to help me towards Pharmacy school acceptance I would appreciate it. I would be glad to share my application essays for review if anyone is interested. I am desperate and need some advice.
Thanks, Casey
Posted by: Casey | August 15, 2006 at 04:07 PM
I have a sorry GPA and dont know what to do. I graduated from college with a 2.8. I tended to overwork myself in college and at times ahd taken 24 units. I liked studying and reading and did very well in most of my classes. I ran into some tough luck when my grandpa died and my grades went down but next to that for the most part I maintained a B avg. GPA. But now when I try to get into grad school no one accepts me. I dont know what to do.
Posted by: chris | October 09, 2006 at 05:18 PM
There should be a standard procedure for someone with bad grades to prove they have changed, be it standardized tests, provisional status, or re-taking undergraduate classes. But of these possibilities, taking tests will not offset the weight of undergraduate GPA, provisional status is rare and only for people on lower cusp of the GPA scores admitted, and re-taking undergraduate usually results in averaging the old score and the new score...a length process. Someone please tell me there is a shorter avenue than that!
Posted by: Haleoanodon | November 04, 2006 at 09:14 AM
Hello everyone,
I went to Simon Fraser University (in British Columbia Canada) and graduated with a Bachelors of Science with a Major in Chemical Phyiscs...My first year I did pretty good...I loved the courses...and after 2nd and 3rd year I really got...well...my ass kicked if you will...taking things like Quantum Mechanics, and upper division Electromagnetism was really difficult for me....And no I wasn't lazy, I really tried hard...again..first year was ok but then it all went downhill...
I had a case of dyslexia and it was hard for me to take tests......whenver I took tests it always seemed like I would study the wrong stuff....Anyway...I DID graduate with a 2.3 gpa (required was 2.0)....
I never really wanted to apply for grad school however I always wanted to apply for the PDP (teachers certificate) program....I wanted to teach highschool math, phyiscs or chemistry....
Well the required GPA is 2.5 in your last 60 credits...well...my last 60 credits were worse than my first 60...
What really gets to me is that there is a shortage of upper highschool teachers (grade 11/12) in Science and Math courses, and I can't get in because of my GPA....
And I KNOW I would be a great teacher....Yes, I know I was not good at the university level other than 1st year...but I understand the highschool level material very well....
I have been tutoring math/chemistry/physics for over 6 years now at the highschool level, and I now teach at a private tutoring center...However the pay and benefits are not as great...
I really want to get into this program but they wont accept me, even though I know I would be a better teacher in these subjects than half the teachers out there....
Just the other day my mom came upto me and said her friend who has a daughter in grade 12, asked her teacher a question and the teacher couldn;t answer...the teacher actually said that she was only qualified to teach upto grade 10 math....uhm....Anyone else see a problem with this besides me?
I'm not trying to do anything as great as get a PHD....I was never as good as many of the other students...and I am willing to accept that....But please....I AM at least qualified to teach grade 12 courses.....
Any advice?
Thank you for your time
Posted by: Sebastian | February 02, 2007 at 02:45 AM
Hi, I am a senior in college majoring in chemistry and math and I really want to go to graduate school for analytical chemistry but my gpa is a 2.4 and basically my instructor told me I need to start looking for a job when I graduate because he doubts that I can get into any grad school...but this is my passion..I dont know what steps I need to take to persue my dream...please help...I asked him should I talk to the instructors at the school but he said that probably will not help.
Posted by: nicole | April 11, 2007 at 04:33 PM